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Edi Obiakpani-Reid's avatar

I like Pekingology too, I love anything boring haha. Will have to check out the books, thanks for the recommendations!

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roselove's avatar

I really loved this post! I forgot about the Boodberg-Creel debate for a bit (ignorance is bliss, I guess?) but this refresher was great, because a western U.S. American scholar recently asked my opinion of this matter and I was struggling to explain these concepts, because I am not an expert on this topic.

I studied 北京 Chinese from ages thirteen through eighteen. I don't know much about Chinese linguistic anthropology, but I have a vague familiarity that in Indo-European languages, writing systems evolved first from accounting systems.

Reading this post made me think about tallies in clay tablets. It made me ask myself: If someone in the past didn't have words for tallies, how would they speak it? Why would anyone even need to speak a tally, at first, if they began recording ledgers to track trade of simple things such as grains, livestock, and objects like pottery?

I'm curious to read some of Ming Dong Gu and Li Zehou's work sometime, as I'd like to learn more about the linguistic anthropology of Chinese, but my immediate, ignorant, purely intuitive hypothesis is that it would make sense for radicals to develop from tallies, to differentiate between different types of things being traded and recorded in ledger. Once characters reach a certain complexity, maybe spoken language could develop to facilitate conversation regarding ledgers for the sake of convenience and, from there, writing could further develop to communicate more complex ideas? I don't think such a hypothesis implies that spoken language couldn't have existed before written language, but it makes sense to me that spoken language would become shaped by writing as soon as written language was developed. Again, that is pure ignorant, intuitive hypothesis, so I'm eager to dive deeper into actual study of erudite Chinese opinion regarding these topics, but the fact that this could even become a debate in academic journals of "sinology" is pretty baffling to me, too, when you consider that 一,二,三 are some of the first words one learns in Chinese and some of the simplest characters.

One frustrating aspect of orientalism I've encountered as a Chinese as a second language student is how often English speakers ask me "why" I studied Chinese; a question I've never encountered in the study of other languages and have never really had an answer to. I've just found it fun and motivating, I guess, but people often try to press me for a more interesting answer.

Others' with orientalist attitudes sometimes treat any sort of vague Chinese-ness with suspicion. It's annoying to enter accidental long-winded debates with people over simple questions like "Do you speak a second language?" "What are you reading?" or "What TV shows are you watching?" (I sometimes watch C-Dramas from both the mainland and Taiwan for some artificial language immersion)

Claims of propaganda are also very difficult for me to parse in the United States. Many people here seem, to me, very invested in reproducing cold-war era paranoia. Nationalistic propaganda is very common in the United States, as I'm sure it is in China too. It's easier for me to deduce these complexities within U.S. media than within Chinese media, because I'm just less familiar with nonfiction and journalistic Chinese media, so I really appreciate your suggestions!

Another frustrating thing I've encountered is how English speakers consider 汉子 less developed due to visual complexity, while other aspects of Chinese, such as syntax and grammar, actually felt much more intuitive, simple, and "developed" than their counterparts in Western European languages, to me, as a Chinese as a second language student. I try to combat this ignorance when I encounter it by explaining that it can also be difficult for Chinese students to learn English as a second language, because difference in language goes both ways.

On the topic of western "sinologists" reducing common patterns in China to absolute truth, I think this comes from both Orientalism and, to a much lesser degree, properties of Western European linguistics. In English, I find it much more difficult and time consuming to phrase concepts in terms of general patterns. This is also pure anecdote, but I find English very conducive to statements of absolute truth and prescriptive modes of thought. I haven't looked at any charts of their respective prevalence, but I've noticed that words conveying nuance such as 平常 and 常常 feel much more common and acceptable in daily speech in Chinese than their counterparts in English. Perhaps that is one reason why I've enjoyed studying Chinese!

Excellent article, as always! Thank you for sharing

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